280: Celebrating Neurodivergence and Authenticity with Sheldon Gay

In this episode of Embracing Intensity, I’m thrilled to welcome Sheldon Gay, host of the I Must Be Buggin’ podcast. Sheldon brings his insightful perspective on navigating life as a late-identified gifted and neurodivergent individual. His podcast and work are dedicated to amplifying underrepresented voices and empowering others to embrace their unique identities.

We explore the challenges and beauty of being true to oneself in a world that often misunderstands intensity, neurodivergence, and giftedness. Sheldon’s passion for self-discovery, emotional depth, and compassionate communication shines through in this powerful conversation.

About Sheldon

Sheldon Gay is the host of the I Must Be Buggin’ podcast, where he delves into topics of identity, giftedness, and neurodivergence through the lens of being Black, underrepresented, and gifted. His mission is to create a space for self-awareness, acceptance, and growth, while helping others see and embrace their unique strengths.

Sheldon’s background as a late-identified gifted and neurodivergent individual has fueled his passion for helping others on their journey of self-discovery. He brings a thoughtful, empathetic approach to conversations on identity, culture, and the power of authenticity.

In this episode:

  • Navigating Identity as a Late-Identified Neurodivergent Individual – Sheldon shares his journey of discovering his giftedness and neurodivergence later in life.
  • Ask vs. Guess Culture – A deep dive into communication styles, cultural nuances, and how self-awareness can help bridge differences.
  • The Power of Self-Discovery – Reflections on how shadow work and embracing authenticity can lead to freedom from shame and guilt.
  • Intensity and Emotional Depth – Exploring how Sheldon’s intellectual curiosity and emotional intensity shape his interactions and relationships.
  • Cultural Expectations and Exceptionalism – Discussing the pressures faced by marginalized communities and how giftedness intersects with cultural identity.
  • Truth with Compassion – The importance of sharing truth in ways that create connection and understanding rather than division.

Sheldon’s thoughtful reflections and passion for empowering others provide invaluable insights for anyone navigating their own journey of self-discovery and authenticity. Tune in for an engaging and inspiring conversation!

Listen now and share your thoughts with us! 🎧✨

Transcript

* Rough Transcript *

Ep. 280

Sheldon: generally we don’t do well as a society making space for, authentic emotions, no matter how you identify, from a gender perspective. But again, especially, when you think about how, people might expect a black man to show up, it does get to be a bit of a challenge.

Welcome to Embracing Intensity Podcast

Aurora: Welcome to the Embracing Intensity podcast. I’ll be sharing interviews and tips for gifted, creative, twice exceptional, and outside the box thinkers who use their fire in a positive way.

Meet Aurora Remember Holtzman

Aurora: My name is Aurora Remember Holtzman. After years of feeling too much, I finally realized that intensity is the source of my greatest power.

Now, instead of beating myself up about not measuring up to my own self imposed standards.

Mission of Embracing Intensity

Aurora: I’m on a mission to help people embrace their own intensity and befriend their brains so they can share their gifts with the world through the Embracing Intensity community, coaching, educational assessment, and other tools to help you use your fire without getting burned.

You can join us at embracingintensity. com.

Hello.

Special Guest: Sheldon Gay

Aurora: Today, I’m super thrilled to bring you a conversation with Sheldon gay host of the, I must be bugging podcast.

Exploring Neurodivergence and Identity

Aurora: Sheldon dives, deep into topics like neurodivergence identity and authenticity. All with a thoughtful, compassionate lens. In our conversation, we explore everything from navigating intensity as a late identified gifted individual to cultural nuances, like ask versus guesss, communication, styles, and culture.

It’s a powerful discussion you won’t want to miss. But before we jump in.

Episode Release and Social Media Break

Aurora: I wanted to share why this episode is dropping a day early. On Monday, I’ll be going dark on the meta platforms as a part of the movement to step back from it for at least that day.

This aligns with the themes for my latest blog post.

Should I delete my social media accounts?

Where I explore how to navigate the challenges of digital platforms while staying authentic and connected to community.

You can find it on my website. If you’re curious.

As I step back from social media for the day.

Invitation to Embracing Intensity Community

Aurora: I’d love to invite you to join me in the embracing intensity community.

A space free from the noise and distractions of traditional platforms. It’s a place where you can connect deeply with others who understand your journey and celebrate your unique intensity. As Sheldon says at the end of this interview,

” I think this community is definitely one where the people who are in it, if we were to engage with each other more, it would amplify the goodness that’s already there.”

I invite you to share in the community and interact over the next couple of weeks and see if we can bring that momentum to increasing engagement on the platform.

Upcoming Live Call and Events

Aurora: One place we’ve had really great engaging conversations has been on our live calls, and I’m happy to share that this week I’m hosting a free live call as a part of my new ignite, your power live series.

It will be on harnessing the power of your intensity. Saturday, January 25th, 2025. At 10:00 AM Pacific, you can also get the free workbook on harnessing the power of your intensity on my website@embracingintensity.com slash join.

This call is perfect for anyone who’s ever felt too much or struggled to channel their intensity instead of toning themselves down or tuning themselves out.

It’s also a preview of what’s to come in my upcoming mastermind group, where we’ll meet weekly to dive deeper into collaboration, goal setting, and growth. Join us at community. Embracing intensity.com/events.

I’m also working on our upcoming speaker series, but there’ll be fewer this year so that I can focus on more in-person events and interview podcast episodes like this one.

I’m super excited for all the connection and growth we’re building this year, both online and hopefully in person. Enjoy.

 Welcome to Embracing Intensity.

Introduction to Sheldon Gay

Aurora: I am so thrilled to finally have Sheldon Gay on the podcast. Welcome Sheldon.

Sheldon: Hey, I’m excited to be here. This is, one of my favorite, spaces. You are one of my favorite people. Thank you for having me.

Aurora: Back at ya!

Sheldon Gay’s Podcast Journey

Aurora: Just for those of you who don’t know, Sheldon is the host of the I Must Be Buggin podcast, and you can tell them what that stands for.

Sheldon: Mm hmm. Yeah, so, I must be buggin where the buggin is B U G N, it stands for black, unidentified, underrepresented, gifted, and otherwise neurodivergent, and so it is both a statement of the experience of, looking around and wondering if the world is, like, am I the am I the one who doesn’t make any sense?

Am I buggin and then it’s also an affirmation of who I am, accepting myself and saying no, like, You know, I must be, Black, unidentified, gifted, and otherwise, neurodivergent, and just accepting and affirming that part of myself.

Aurora: Awesome. And I don’t know how far back, I don’t even know if it’s been a full year, has it?

You can’t even follow me.

Sheldon: Yeah, yeah. So like, yeah, it’s, it’s, it must have been, I’ve, so my podcast is officially, I’ve been going for more than a year.

Sheldon Gay’s Self-Discovery Journey

Sheldon: I think I told you that you and your work was actually a piece of my gifted self discovery journey. And so I at least knew about you prior to that.

I don’t remember exactly when we first started, you know, whatever kind of communicating when we kind of e met. But, yeah, my podcast, yeah, it’s, it’s wild to me to think that it’s been, you know, more than a year.

Aurora: Yeah. Well, I think you had commented or something on, on Instagram and I clicked, I was like, I think I followed you back, but I didn’t really register yet.

Then you commented and I clicked on it. I was like, Oh, what’s this? And then I totally binged your whole podcast. The funny thing is that even though I have a podcast, I don’t listen to as many podcasts as I’d like. I don’t necessarily have the attention span for a lot of them. But I found that yours kept me engaged and you just talk about really deep, important topics and are very thoughtful.

I think I’ve listened to them all. Was Matt’s the last one.

Sheldon: Yes, I’m cooking up some stuff now. So, be on the lookout for, the next one, obviously, our conversation, will be something else for our folks to chew on. But, I’ve got some cool stuff on the way.

Aurora: Awesome. And it’s funny because my friend Lana was listening to that one and she’s like, I just want to be in a room talking to these guys.

Sheldon: Yeah, we got to figure out a way to get a few of us in the same space because I think that would be such a dope. You know, just jam session as it were.

Aurora: Yeah, I was thinking about that actually locally doing some panel type discussion

yeah.

That would be a fun thing to do.

Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about yourself and what you are intensely passionate about

Sheldon: What am I intensely passionate about? I mean shoot, you know, we could be here for days. A little bit more about me. You know, late identified, right? So a couple of years ago I kind of had this aha moment where I was reflecting on my life across, you know, my career, relationships, family, all these different things, or I was like, something’s there that I can’t quite put my hands on, right?

I think about Neo in the beginning of the matrix where he’s like, this world doesn’t seem 100 percent real. There’s something else there. I started doing, a lot of work, particularly, you know, some shadow work and out of the shadows, as it were popped giftedness.

I was like, Oh, shoot. Okay, you know, This is something that could apply to me. Right. You know, I was reading books like living with intensity and watching all the, Linda Silverman videos, like all so many different things. Like I said, catching some of your work. The resonance was just undeniable.

And so. It made me reflect back on my years of, like I said, I was born in Philly, spent a lot of my life in the DC area. My mom moved us down there. One of the main reasons is so that I could have access to, some of the best schools here in the country. Reflecting on that journey through those schools and how I showed up there and how those schools showed up for me.

How I showed up, in romantic relationships, whether it be my, former marriage, right? And, just thinking to myself, okay, a lot of this stuff makes a whole lot more sense. And so I’ve spent the last year not just talking about my self discovery journey, but certainly talking about how other people can, do that same work and receive that same, freedom from these feelings of shame guilt and, all the negative thoughts, right.

Just doing some of that shadow work, at a high level, to be able to then move through the world more authentically.

Sheldon Gay’s Passion for Self-Discovery

Sheldon: And so, you know, to that end, a thing that I’m super deeply, deeply passionate about is people and giving them access. To, self discovery and self awareness and that gets me in trouble.

It’s always gotten me in trouble. I was having a conversation with someone the other day. I’ve said this in other spaces right before I realized that I was gifted. I discovered that I was an empath, right? And, you know, one of the ways that that happens is because I can see past people’s masks and I can see who they really are.

And again, there’s beauty in that, right? To be able to not see the pieces where they feel broken or not necessarily not see them, but like not be caught up in the places where they feel broken, not be caught up in the places where They’re not able to love themselves and to really just see them as their true self.

And so there’s a lot of beauty in that, but then that becomes a scary thing, right? People put a lot of work, a lot of energy, a lot of resources into, their mask And so if you’re seen past that, it gets super scary. And sometimes, yeah, that chases some people away. And so, I still remain super, super passionate about that.

And last thing I’ll say on this is that one of the things I try to read to myself. Every day, I have a vision board and one of the things that’s in this vision board is the statement that I say, the truth deserves the light, but with compassion, right? So I’m always just trying to remind myself that, as much as I want to show people their truth that I need to make sure that there’s compassion there for where they are.

So.

Aurora: Absolutely. And I think that’s one of our common values in terms of the truth and with compassion because I think it’s so easy to think it’s one or the other where it’s like, I’m a truth teller. I’m just going to say it like it is.

Absolutely.

Ask vs Guess Culture

Aurora: And, that conversation recently came up about, Ask culture versus guess culture.

And it was funny because it was, conversation on Tik TOK, which by the time this comes out, might not even be

Sheldon: right,

Aurora: But the guy who was arguing for, guess culture was talking about how, it was polite and friendly and all this stuff, and I’m like, as somebody who is 100 percent ask culture, there is a way to do it in a way that is thoughtful and kind.

In fact, I think it’s more kind than trying to make someone guess at what you need and want. But it can be seen as rude if people aren’t used to that directness.

Sheldon: And sorry, just to make sure that I’m on the same page, can you just clarify for me what that specifically refers to so that I make sure that I’m tracking because I think I know what you’re talking about, but, yeah, go ahead.

Aurora: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think I first heard it with Catiosaurus who was on the podcast talking about, neurodivergent intimacy but yeah, it’s a concept, and it’s cultural too, a lot of different cultures have more degree of ask versus guess.

Navigating Cultural Nuances

Aurora: So like for the Midwest, for example, they were saying is more of a guess culture where you’re expected to anticipate needs. And if you don’t ask directly, like if someone’s over at your house, then you offer them food, it’s cultural expectations. When you have someone who is of a guess culture where it’s rude to directly ask for things With someone who’s from a culture where It’s rude not to directly ask It can be tensions between those people and and of course from a neurodivergent perspective Ask culture is more neurodivergent friendly because We’re not expected to read into cues to the same degree or, read people’s minds.

And I find it funny because. Even though, as a neurodivergent person myself, it’s ADHD, and it’s not necessarily that I can’t read cues.

Absolutely can.

In fact, I’m better at it than many people. Like you said, I lean towards the empath thing myself. But there are times when I might not. notice or might not pay attention or some of the more basic things go unnoticed.

So the things that people assume are super basic, those are the ones I’m probably going to miss. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. It’s the complex stuff that I’m going to get, you know?

Sheldon: Yeah.

Aurora: And so, that was for me in my first marriage. He was much more guess culture and I was much more ask and it took me years to get him to directly say what it was that he wanted because I’m like, I’m not a mind reader.

Sheldon: Yeah. No, no. Thank you for that clarification. yeah cause you’ve made e a couple of really, really good points. And, you know, what I’ll add kind of sort of append to that is really just that, yeah, I think it’s super, super important for, this is why self awareness is so powerful to me because it’s not so much about, determining who is more right, right, like, is ask culture better than guess culture or whatever, as much as it is about realizing what’s happening within, within me, what’s my lived experience, and what is that telling me about this scenario, and then finding my way to get my need met.

I can definitely say that there are people even just this morning, My aunt, to be honest, I’m not a hundred percent sure whether she wants help. So there’s an event, like a family event, not this weekend, but the next weekend. And, essentially I offered to help. I messaged her, it was 10 days later, she messaged me back and still didn’t ask for anything. And so I was just like, okay, if it’s 10 days later and you’re just messaging me, I assume you don’t need anything, but if you do, just let me know. Right. And. Then she messaged me back doesn’t say, you know, yeah, I still need help or I might need help.

She just says, well, I had a whole lot going on. And I’m like, okay, but do you need help? Because otherwise, I don’t know what’s going on. Right. And so this is just a simple example of, a way that could easily derail. Right. Because I could get really frustrated because in my mind, I’m like, just tell me if you need help.

Right? And on the other end, she could have her own narrative around what it is. But if we’re both aware of just our needs, I can just say, hey, look. You know, here’s what would be helpful for me, or if I don’t hear from you by this day, I will assume that you don’t need anything.

And then I will, I’m letting you know that I’m going to move on to doing other things, right? And that’s a way for me to express my need without trampling on her. But I think, again, that’s why, like I said, self awareness is super, super important. And I think as neurodivergent folks, it can be really hard to. realize what’s happening because a lot of the ways in which we’re asked to move through the world, even though we may have a preference for more direct culture, it requires us to play the guessing game,

right?

And so separating those two things out about like, what is my actual authentic way of being?

What is my real need? And all that kind of stuff can get muddied. And then again, that gets frustrated. And so that creates the cycle that we don’t want. So anyway, I know we can go on onto that for a million days, but thank you for clarifying that and bringing that topic up.

Aurora: Absolutely. And one of the things they brought up is sometimes if you just even say, it’s okay to say no, when you ask,

that can be helpful,

but for me, an example, when I was, my old school that I was at for like 14 years, I realized on the surface, it looked very. Smooth, but with the pandemic and everything, a lot of stuff came out and it was very much a guess culture when I left that environment, it was just exhausting. Like I can navigate it, but it was exhausting because I was worried about what other people were thinking or, you know, like if I was talking to someone and it wasn’t a good time, they wouldn’t just come out and tell me, you know, It’s like you gotta come anyway.

Sheldon: Yeah, sorry, really quickly just the last little thing because it just popped in my mind because it’s it’s such a great example. And the other challenge about that as well is going back to what I was saying earlier. If people aren’t aware and accepting of who they are, if you say to them, hey, like, you’re not telling me exactly what you want, right?

It can cause a defensive reaction because they’re not able to own that, right? And just say, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, I, you know, again, this is my angle that I’m coming from. Just even what you talked about as it relates to just tell me that you want me to leave, right? For them, because again, it’s not about this owning of who I am.

It becomes a, you’re trying to tell me that I, I’m kicking you out. And it’s like, no, no, no, I’m not telling you that you’re kicking me out. I’m just saying that you, whatever, you’ve maxed your capacity, your bandwidth for right now, which is fine, right? We can come back to this discussion or whatever. But like, Right now I’m sensing something different and I would rather you just tell me that we can both be happy in the moment.

Right. But, I think, like I said, that’s where a lot of these unnecessary. Escalations can come from.

Aurora: Well, absolutely. And over the years I have learned to be hyper aware of cues and trying to, be like, is this a good time?

Or, you know, stuff like that. But there’s just times when with my ADHD, I don’t pick up on those. Cause I’m just so focused on what it is that I’m trying to get at.

Sheldon: So I

Aurora: really appreciated the people. Like I had one gal who was, kind of opposite from me on the neuro spectrum.

But she was able to just directly say like, you know, not a good time, come back later or, you know, whatever. And I’m like, great. I’ll connect later. Yes.

Sheldon: Yes.

Aurora: Anyway.

Sheldon: So,

Aurora: circling back, tell me a little bit about your own personal brand of intensity. What does intensity look like for you?

Sheldon: Well, I mean, you just got a taste of it, right?

My brand of intensity is, really wanting to get into the nooks and crannies of how things work, which, with my undergrad degree in mechanical engineering that worked well, right? Like, you know, from an engineering perspective, really understanding how things work.

makes you a really great problem solver, right? And that’s good and fine and well in that scenario. In some scenarios, not so much, but I tend to be someone, when it comes to, you know, intensities that, that intellectual curiosity is, is very much so there. Emotional Right. That’s definitely, there, which again, you know, aligns with this whole thing about being an empath.

And I think, well, actually, I know you and I’ve had this conversation before, right? As a black man, sometimes that can be a challenge because the way that I show up confidently kind of flies in the face of, these caricatures that people consciously or otherwise have about who I might be when I show up, like I said, in front of them, I’m not just someone who, can say I’m sad, but I can get real complex about it and really know, all the workings of it.

Challenges of Emotional Complexity

Sheldon: And so, where many of us again, whether they be gifted or otherwise neurodivergent, are familiar with this, discomfort that many people have around complexities. Again, emotional complexity, can be even more challenging for folks. Because just generally we don’t do well as a society making space for, authentic emotions, no matter how you identify, from a gender perspective. But again, especially, when you think about how, people might expect a black man to show up, it does get to be a bit of a challenge. I wouldn’t necessarily put this in my top three or top four, but there’s definitely a, You know, imaginational, thing there because I’m always, you know, I, I love a good idea, and being a serial entrepreneur that may be evident, right?

I’ve told people I’ve lived many different lives, like I look back and I’m like, oh, I tried this, I built that, whatever. That’s because anytime there’s a really cool idea, I’m down to take a shot, see what might come from it. I think, generally speaking, all those things in relationship with me is going to manifest as, me sharing my voice.

Me probably asking you some questions that may make you feel uncomfortable because of how. The intellectual curiosity plays in the emotional curiosity plays in and how something you said may have sparked a really cool idea and I’m like, Hmm. And so that’s how my intensity would tend to show up.

I’m not sure if that’s how you were asking the question, but that’s how I took it.

So

Impact of Childhood on Intensity

Aurora: So how do you think that your intensity affected you growing up?

Sheldon: Dang, I just took that breath like that because I was thinking about my childhood a little bit earlier. I will just say that, yeah, I think

This is why I’m so passionate and adamant as well about people not hiding, neurodivergence from their child, right? And whether or not you use a label, that is a separate discussion for me, right? Because for me, What’s most important is that you not try to pretend that the ways in which your child is showing up differently don’t exist, I think people overuse gaslight in this day and age. What I don’t want is for people to spend time trying to explain away the ways that a child is showing up or even project their own insecurities or their own feelings onto how the child is showing up and manifesting shame. Actually, just what popped into my mind, I was on the bus going to New York the other day, and there was a young mother that was on there, and she had her young daughter, who, I don’t know, at most was like three years old, probably not even, and instead of having a conversation with the child in a way that, basically the child was just being a kid, right?

Like kind of rolling around the chair, looking around and playing with things on the chair, and for me, there was an opportunity to one, just be like, that’s a kid being a kid, right? But instead like words such as, She was on a video call with somebody FaceTime or whatever.

It was like, well, I’m gonna give them the phone because They want to be a bad kid right now. And it was like is that the way to communicate that? Are they being a bad kid or they’re a little kid on a bus with Stuff they may have never seen they’re just being a kid it wasn’t like they were running up and down the aisles screaming there was an opportunity to do something different and I share that story because what a lot of folks end up doing is.

because something makes them feel uncomfortable.

They won’t say, I don’t like how you’re making me feel. I don’t like how you’re making me think about myself. Right. Cause maybe even some of those behaviors they saw, they noticed from their childhood and maybe they weren’t allowed to behave that way. Right. And so instead of having, like I said, a conversation about, how do I create a safe space, you know, in a welcoming space for you while also providing guidance, it’s these projections.

That, as I joked when I spoke at a school recently, add, at least five therapy sessions to that child’s future life, right? So, in my childhood, this is my roundabout way of saying my childhood was filled with a lot of things that I don’t like looking back on, if I’m being honest.

It’s just people telling me, indirectly or directly that. There was something not right about me, something odd, something weird, something just too much, particularly just too much, asking too many questions, knowing too much, I’ve spoken about this on one of my podcast episodes, particularly, like I said, in the black community, and other, melanated, communities, this idea that a child should be, seen and not heard, bumps up directly against A gifted child’s way of being, right?

What do you mean? If I know an answer, why would I not give you that answer? If I, have a question about how the world, is working, that’s not making sense to me. It’s not me, Trying to cut you off at the knees or make you look bad. It’s me not being able to reconcile Reality, right?

And so a lot of my childhood bumped up against my intensities in that way and so Again, as I reflect back I saw a lot of the coping mechanisms that I put into place that as I’m like in my early 40s I had to be like wow like that was a big part of My self discovery journey was the grief Right?

Like, going through and realizing the ways in which, I really Put myself in a box just to be able to make it to the next day without losing it. So, Yeah, hopefully that’s my answer

Aurora: Yeah Absolutely, and you already kind of answered this question and I know you have an entire podcast about this But what are some specific cultural factors that affected how you expressed yourself?

Cultural Factors in Self-Expression

Sheldon: Yeah, I mean again, I think bumping up against, you know, being seen and not heard, there are cultural factors as it relates to, as well, the, the exceptionalism, you know, you know, I definitely have talked about this and, you know, at least a couple of episodes, right?

Pressure of Marginalized Communities

Sheldon: One of the things that I mentioned is this sort of dichotomous experience in marginalized communities where, only a few quote unquote get out.

If you’re somebody who’s kind of on that track, if people are seeing something in you that seems like you could be the one to get out and particularly someone who might be able to look out and support your community, your family first, but certainly, you know, your broader community. Well, that puts a lot of pressure on you.

Right? So again, to whatever extent you may be comfortable with that, some people embrace it.

Expectations and Career Choices

Sheldon: Some people, You know, I hear about a lot of folks who, for example, a Caribbean and their parents tell them, the only acceptable professions are whatever, like doctor.

engineer, lawyer, right? Like that’s it. If you’re not one of those things, not just maybe you’ll make a little bit less money and sorry for that, but it’s just like your life is not acceptable. And again, whether or not I have the capacity to do those things is not so much important if I’m not interested in them.

And so these are things that we then have to grapple with, because again, as you’re a child, as you’re growing, as you’re kind of finding your way in the world, the idea.

Balancing Community and Personal Interests

Sheldon: That not just a parent, but potentially your entire community, you might be letting down or that might be shunning you because you chose to do.

I don’t know. Maybe you really care about, cleaning, and you wanted to start a cleaning business, right? Fine. But. Not if everybody says you should, nobody’s going to make, you know, all the different things. Like I said, we could, we could have a whole conversation about that. Right. But like, that brings a lot of extra weight to it.

And like I said, particularly as a gifted. Child, where you may demonstrate some things early on, that are, you know, quote unquote exceptional that could bring, a lot of things, to the space again. And on the flip side, who do you think you are kind of energy? Some people who may have not had those same opportunities, right?

So, again, there’s so many different ways in which this stuff plays out.

Navigating Predominantly White Schools

Sheldon: I think the last thing that I’ll just say, and feel free to follow up with additional questions, but one of the things as well is moving outside of my culture and then thinking about being in, the broader culture, these schools that my mom sent me to were predominantly white.

Navigating Cultural Expectations

Sheldon: Right. And so you show up in these spaces. And again, you flying in the face of what a lot of people expect. Right. And what does that mean, how do you find, again, we’re all looking for community we’re all looking for connection, so you’re wanting to fit in, to some extent, but. If fitting in means adapting and moving in a way that cuts off a piece of who you are, what does that look like?

Challenges of Being a Gifted Black Student

Sheldon: And again, I can’t tell you how many times me showing up in a class as a gifted boy, you know, little black boy who’s like, Knows his stuff really irritated clearly irritated people. A lot of gifted folks deal with that Like I said in general, but this is an extra layer of conscious or otherwise Racism, you know, let me call it what it is, right?

 You show up in these spaces. You’ve got to deal with that.

The Burden of Fitting In

Sheldon: You just want to be in school like that’s it.

You don’t want to have to be like fighting. You don’t want to feel like MLK, right? Fighting the good fight just to go to school. That’s. A dynamic that a lot of us have to figure out how to navigate Those are some things that come to mind when I think about the cultural aspects of navigating my world

Aurora: so Tell me about a time.

Toning Down in Relationships

Aurora: You felt like you had to tone yourself down or tune yourself out

Sheldon: I mean the what I’m laughing at is there were many times where I Should have the question is whether or not I did. You know, So and and sorry, we still talking about school. We just talk about just generally in life

Aurora: in general.

Sheldon: Okay. Yeah Yeah, so let me just I’ll just say this Let me move out of the schooling, perspective and bring it into relationships perspective That may be in friendships or romantic relations whenever I say relationship I mean it like super literal and how we relate to each other but One of the things I have become quite, aware of is how.

Romantic Relationships and Insecurities

Sheldon: If we talk about romantic relationships can be very awkward to be with someone who

seems like has quote unquote all the answers, right, particularly if you’re someone who doesn’t feel that way, it can expose insecurities you didn’t even realize that you had, I think that’s probably the key point there. Right. And again that applies to, you know, parents to friends to whatever right if you are.

Feeling really good about yourself and how you’re showing up and all that kind of stuff. And then somebody shows up who exposes this piece of you, right, that is, maybe needs a little bit work on these, but this is a little bit more awareness or whatever it is.

Self-Awareness and Ego

Sheldon: If you’ve not done the work to make peace with your ego right now, that becomes.

a point of contention. And so for me, I know that, you know, again, going back to my vision board, one of the things I remind myself every day is that, one, I acknowledge the fact that I’m intense, right? But two, I also forgive myself for all the times where I did shrink myself into a box and pretend like, you know, If there were like five other things that I knew about a topic, or if I did know, I was familiar with how that thing worked I might have not said anything because I know if I said something there, well, here’s another thing that Sheldon knows, here’s another thing that Sheldon’s good at, here’s another, right?

And so that is definitely experience that I’ve gone through really recognizing again, all those ways in which I shrunk, and that is very much so not how I’m looking to operate now. I am looking to do that, again, going back to this thing about compassion piece, right?

Compassion and Authenticity

Sheldon: Like, being mindful of, you know, kind of assessing the space to, to see, okay, like, if I’m sharing this, this stuff with people, how might this, you know, make them uncomfortable?

And again, not, I’m going to share my stuff right but how do I do it from a space where if somebody if it makes if it’s clear that somebody’s feeling some, you know, some type of way that I can affirm that piece of them that’s tender, right that I can acknowledge that that might again make you know whatever whatever it is like I said it’s it’s very situational or whatever but like, how do I make space for the fact that.

Again, there’s a human being across from me that I want to, to relate to and to assure while at the same time, honoring myself because I cannot put other people before myself anymore. That just doesn’t work for me. I did it for years, years, years, years. It didn’t win me any prizes, you know?

So but yeah, , a lot of spaces, it’s really about, like, shrinking. That’s where I felt that.

Aurora: Yeah.

Truth with Compassion

Aurora: Well, and I think that comes down to the, when you were talking about the way you bring those things up or the way you talk about those things comes down to that truth, truth with compassion concept.

Right. And I think that’s one of the things in a lot of our discourse. Around the world right now is that I feel like people are forgetting the compassion piece and they’re just like this truth This is my truth. This is the truth this and if you don’t agree with me And it’s like this divisiveness and and it’s like it’s not just about truth But also about the fact that if you don’t speak it with compassion, if you don’t speak it with a reflection on how it’s going to be received, it’s not just like, this is the truth and you need to accept it or not.

The Importance of Being Heard

Aurora: It’s that people aren’t going to listen. They’re not going to hear your truth if you don’t present it in a way that they can be heard. And that’s something, you know, being in a broken education system for so long that I’ve had to really, you know, get good at is, is sharing truth in a way that’s actually heard.

And I think you do a really good job of that.

Sheldon: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no, I just, the last thing I’ll say is like, you’re, you’re absolutely right that you know, again, tapping into that, that truth with compassion is a, is, is, and it’s, it’s being mindful of the fact that what’s my objective here? My objective is, To be heard, if my objective is to, whatever, help us kind of get to, if we’re solving a problem together, if my objective is for us to have the most context and information to be able to do that, then it’s incumbent upon me to hold on to my piece of what that is.

And a part of that is, like I said, how am I, you know, showing up with compassion and humility? And you know, I can never control how someone receives that. That’s a separate, you know, You know thing but I can at least I think about it in this way How do I do things that future Sheldon will still be proud of like that’s you know So

Aurora: absolutely and there’s definitely a factor that no matter how kindly you put something or how respectful you are There’s certain people aren’t going to hear it from certain people And I

Sheldon: I

Aurora: think I saw that Really played out.

With my friend alexander. I was telling you about who has the The now I’m blanking on her podcast, but but yeah, she just, we have very similar ways of communication, but there was a period of time there where like, the things she was saying were being completely misinterpreted. And it was very, very clear that it was a race issue.

And it was like, like not like the things that I, I might say the same thing and be heard in a way that she, people were, not everyone, but there were people who were just. willfully misinterpreting her because of that. And it’s frustrating. But I do, I do feel like the way that you present things on your podcast and the way that you communicate is, is heard probably more because of how you present it and making sure, you know, there are always going to be those people who are going to be willfully misinterpreting.

Intensity and Self-Discovery

Aurora: So, can you think about a time when you felt like your intensity felt out of control?

Sheldon: Out of control. So the, the, the thought, the thought here is because there are, you know incidents that I can think about that overwhelmed people. It’s the out of control framing that I’m like, well, I mean, was that out of control?

Capacity and Intensity

Sheldon: Was that just, you know, a lot for someone to digest, which, you know, again, as part of my self awareness journey around, I think, you know, I mean, I know that I’ve said this on my podcast, and I think, again, we’ve had this conversation that part of my self discovery journey as well was this realization that not everybody had the same capacity.

And what does that mean? Like, what does that mean? Not just, you know, if you say that to some people, it can just seem like you’re just like, oh, you’re better than me, you have more than me. And it’s like, well, no, no, no. Like, functionally, if I have, whatever, a hundred oranges to give, And most people have let’s even just say 50 like let’s just even do that right but like I have 100 oranges to give if you ask me to give you know you know 20 of my oranges that’s very different for me that’s okay 20 oranges but 20 out of a yes somebody with 50 if you talk to me to 20 that feels a lot like More intense for them, right?

That’s almost half of what they have, right?

Childhood Passion for Space

Sheldon: And so I bring that up to say that, you know, There were times when, you know, I think about going back to school the school that I always talk about, and I always mention the name because I love the school, and I say it’s the one school that I never had to feel like I had to carve any part of myself out it’s Lowell School in D.

C., and I had the opportunity to see some of my old, like, teacher reports or whatever, right? And it was very clear to me in reading them that my intensity around space, because I used to want, like, the biggest thing I wanted to be was an astronaut. And for those who are familiar Sally Ride was the first woman in space.

She wrote a book called To Space and Back. And I read that book from cover to back, I don’t know how many times in my life. And so in the teacher reports, It’s talking about Sheldon basically is reading this book and talking about this book and talking about space again. And I know that experience, right?

I, I can kind of take myself back there and think about those times when it was is this the time to really be bringing space, you know, or bringing this book up to like, how many, you know, book reports are, you know what I mean? Like how many projects can you do on space? And so that is like a time that I think about where, You know again, maybe that was quote unquote out of control.

Validating and Redirecting Passion

Sheldon: But the compassionate part of me as well just says that, you know, what would be good in that scenario and what Lowell tended to do is not tell me something’s wrong with my love of space, but to validate and redirect, right? Like, Yeah, space is really cool. Or, you know, that’s such a really interesting topic.

How about we talk about, you know, one of the reports talking about us learning about Native American history, whatever. It’s like, okay, well, how about we talk about this for now, right? And to, you know, to whatever extent that may, may or not work easily. But the, the key part is, like I said, from the compassionate piece is to not let shame enter the space around how you’re showing up, if that, that makes sense.

And hopefully that is that fits the bill, you know, out of control incident.

Aurora: Yeah.

Using Fire for Good

Aurora: So tell me a little bit about how you use your fire for good.

Sheldon: Yeah. I mean, I, I mean this work that I do, the work we do, right, it’s not easy. I am increasingly aware of how much work still needs be done around making people comfortable with the word neurodivergent and not just outside of our neurodivergent communities but certainly within.

The other day, for example, saw a post where someone was questioning whether schizophrenia could be concluded as a neurodivergence and it turned into this whole, discussion. And for me,

Aurora: like, yeah, of course,

Sheldon: So, Right. So for me, my fire, a few years ago, my fire would have been to get in them comments and start, you know, yeah, done people, right?

Like, duh, how could this, you know, all these kinds of things. Where I’m at now, I at least try to start with, you know, helping people be curious about, you know, Their thoughts and why, why would this not be? How could you not come to that conclusion? Right? But my fire is really about speaking word to, to, to, to the truth, right?

Like, again, one of the things I try to read to myself every day is the Audre Lorde quote, which basically says my silence won’t save me. Right? There is so much that I have to say. There’s so many things that I’m passionate about. And it seems that, again, that one of my gifts is this ability to speak to topics and to make them, you know, digestible and relatable and all that kind of stuff.

And instead of being afraid that it’s going to lose me friends, instead of, you know, being afraid that It is going to be overwhelming or out of control for people, right? I am very much so taking that fire and saying, look, you know, we get we get one run, at least one conscious run here in this earthly plane, like, you know, whether you believe in your incarnation and all that fun stuff, again, separate conversation, but one conscious run right on this earthly plane.

And so I’m going to use whatever time I have to speak, you know, truth to power. And again, as much as I can. with, with compassion. So yeah, that, that’s really you know, how I’m using my fire.

Aurora: Awesome. Yes. And you do a fantastic job of it.

Sheldon: Thank you. Thank you.

Aurora: So what do you think has helped you the most with harnessing the power of your intensity?

Sheldon: What I think the most, the most, the most, definitely my own work to love and accept myself. It all starts with me. If I don’t get up, you know, out of my bed and into the world from a frame of mind that I’m worthy of love, regardless of what happens that day, right? Regardless of how many wins I bring, you know, like it starts there.

And that was not an easy journey because again, of all the things that we’ve already discussed that you’ve got to kind of unlearn and, and, and work through.

The Power of Community

Sheldon: I hesitated because beyond that, I would say externally, it’s community. It’s absolutely community. I tell people like these online communities, whether they be gifted specific or just more broadly neurodivergent literally saved my life because this past year, I, you know, essentially, you know, I had some really big losses, like some of the biggest losses that I could ever have all within, you know, a year’s time.

And I’m sitting here. Now, where you, someone even wants to talk to me, like, you know, that, even beyond any other, other things that I kind of have going on in my life, like, the fact that somebody even wants to hear my voice around stuff is because, community said to me, invalidated, hey Sheldon, like, we like you, we want you here, your voice is meaningful, your presence brings, you know, light to this space, right and, The mirroring of you aren’t the only like you’re not the only, you know, version of the light being that you are right and so you don’t have to feel alone and isolated and alien.

Right. So yeah, again, it definitely starts within me. But, but community is definitely like externally. That’s the critical piece.

Aurora: Absolutely. And before we started recording, we were talking a little bit about how both of us were looking at starting more in person community as well as the online community, which I think is really important.

I think we’re moving that way right now. I mean, obviously, I’m still continuing the online community because most of my platform is worldwide, but definitely having more in person local stuff is great as well.

Personal Habits for Positive Fire

Aurora: Are there any personal habits that have helped you to use your fire in a positive way?

Sheldon: Yeah, I think, I think again, that vision board is, I mean, it sounds, I mean, possibly like cliche or whatever. I mean, it’s somebody reading words off of the screen, right? Like that sort of functionally is what it is, but I can tell you, you know, I had gotten away from it a at the beginning of the year and I felt it.

I felt it. And so the last couple of days I’ve been much more intentional about getting back in there. And what, beyond sort of the discipline of consistency and power of consistency, right? These reminders of what is it that I’m looking to focus on? What is it, what I’m, I’m looking to remind myself about myself.

Is super, super powerful, you know, in it, you know, I not only affirm who I am, you know, I’m forgiving myself for things that maybe, you know, the the work of showing up as your best self is a, is an ongoing journey. It’s not like, Oh, I figured it out. And I never think of those things again. The whisper, it might might go down to a whisper, but it’s never Completely gone, particularly, you know, maybe you see that family member or that friend or you’re in that, you know, uncomfortable scenario again.

Right. And so that that whisper at least comes up. And so for me, that is really, really core. And it also reminds me again about how I want to show up for other people show up in spaces. That is, you know, Super, super critical. It’s like I said, anytime, you know, there’s an opportunity for conflict, even as I mentioned earlier, talking to my aunt, like, a few years ago, I might have, again, I might have just been like, look, dude, like, I’m trying to help if you don’t want, you know what I mean, like, I would have just had a different energy about it, but, reminding myself about the future Sheldon that I’m always kind of wanting to make sure is going to be good with, oh, dang, like, Did you have to talk to your aunt that way?

Right? Like, avoiding that and saying, okay, she may be happy with how I respond. Like I said, that’s not something I can control. I’m not talking about people pleasing, but what I am saying is, is that if I can still be proud of the fact that I honored her needs, and I honored my needs, and I spoke, you know, clearly and authentically, like, that’s the part that, you know I can own and like I said, doing that daily of reminding myself of what that looks like and what that means is, has been really, really helpful for me.

And so I think that like bleeds into any other kind of routines, which I’m not big on routines in general.

Structured Chaos

Sheldon: Like I’m, as people say, people ask me, like you know, a phrase that applies to me is structured chaos. Right. Like it’s, I’m not a complete anarchist. But I am someone who, you know, taps into the fact that control is often an illusion.

And so how do I just put structure around what that looks like so that I don’t ruminate on the fact that I don’t control anything, right? So. Yeah,

Aurora: absolutely. Getting towards the end here. Okay. How do you help others use their own fire?

Helping Others Use Their Fire

Sheldon: It’s a great question. So the, the way that I do that is by really helping people see themselves I think about ways in which I can offer people a safe space to explore who they are to have who they are mirrored back to them. I think one of the big, the biggest things that can be a challenge for folks in leveraging their power, leveraging their fire, you know, leveraging their authenticity is that a lot of times the, the love, the care, the, the admiration that we feel for them, is not spoken.

And it goes back, like right now, I’m honestly having this, this whole thing about the ask versus guess conversation from earlier, right? Because, you know, I 100 percent believe that you should give people their flowers while they’re here, right? Because there are way too many times where people say, Oh, they should know that I love them.

They should know that I think that they’re smarter. They should know. But it’s like, did you say that?

Right?

How did you make that explicit? So for me, a big part of me helping people do that is as much as possible, speaking that as explicitly as I can, as often as I can, you know, even though it may make people feel uncomfortable, but like speaking to that as much as, as, as I can.

And then again, creating a space where to whatever level they may be comfortable that it’s safe to explore that. You know, I, it, it reminds me of the thing.

Love and Acceptance

Sheldon: One of the things I read every day is a phrase that says love is not love does not require a perfect process. Right. And, and I say that because again, Somebody may trip up.

They may say something that doesn’t necessarily align exactly with how you would have wanted it said, but it doesn’t mean that love can’t exist in that space. And I think that’s what a lot of people are afraid of. And so if I create a space where people realize, Oh, I can say something and Sheldon will know my heart or at least trust my heart and we can find a way to work through it.

Then I can just be much more free. I can, you know, put my fire and let my light shine or however you want to think about it right much more freely in this space. And then that gives me confidence to do that elsewhere. So, yeah, just like I said, you know, affirming people. helping them to see how, you know, they’re not giving themselves the credit maybe that they deserve.

And then like I said, just creating a safe space to, to navigate all of it is, is how I think about how I help people with their life. But they’re fire. I’m sorry.

Aurora: Absolutely. So is there anything else you would like to share with the embracing intensity audience?

Sheldon: Look, I, I say to folks, you know, you know, again, love yourself.

Be super, super curious about yourself, embrace that journey. I’m giving you a little bit of a preview of one of my next episodes. However, again, when this comes out, how this comes out, that’ll determine. And when you ever get a chance to listen to it, that’ll determine it. But, you know, one of the episodes that I’m working on, you know, is this discussion around ego and this delicate balance between, you know, what does healthy ego look like?

It means being able to love yourself and, and recognize, you know, who you are in, you know, humbly put that out into the world. But it also means realizing that this concept of self is also a construct and not being so tied to exactly what that can look like. And so that’s important because.

Embracing Change and Joy

Sheldon: Loving yourself as well, particularly over time, means accepting that what that looks like can change and not feeling afraid of letting that change happen.

You know, appreciating the era that it may have been and embracing the one that’s to come. And this is where joy can really, really exist. And consistent joy, right, can exist because a lot of where a lot of that stuff, like where joy is, is. stripped from a space is because of the fear of loss. because of the, the defensiveness around this persona that you’ve created.

You’re like, well, I’m supposed to have been this. I was supposed to do this. I was spoke, people see me as that, you know, whatever, all these different things. And when you both acknowledge that, yeah, maybe I serve those roles but also potentially let go of that to say, I can no longer do it or I can’t do it in that way.

You can be a lot more free to be joyous and to find solutions for how you still tap into what ultimately is the thing you’re looking for, which is connection. And so, yeah, I would just say, you know, continue that journey and if you are curious about, you know, how I speak about it, you know. Come on over to the podcast and, and, and join me there.

Aurora: absolutely. And on that note of connection and community, I did want to circle back to something we talked about before we started recording, which is the community online and how I was mentioning my own community is on mighty networks, which is off Facebook or off, you know, general social media.

And it’s hard to get people on there, engaging on that platform, but more and more with all the changes happening on social media. People are talking about getting off those platforms.

Sheldon: And

Aurora: so I’ve, I’ve been working on, on how do we get more engagement in there? There’s so many amazing people in there.

Every time people join it’s just such a diverse, wonderful group of people. But one of the things that I mentioned, I think you had talked about hosting in groups and then not getting much. Interaction and I think what happens is someone will come in and they’ll be Oh, this is awesome.

Let me make a post and then they don’t get a huge amount of interaction. And then after a while, they kind of Peter out and then the next person comes in and it’s like,

Sheldon: yeah,

Aurora: I need this like critical mass of people to come at one time and start interacting with each other’s posts. So like my friend is.

Started doing that a little bit. I have a few more.

Invitation to Community

Aurora: So this is my invitation our audience say, come join us in the community, which is community dot embracing intensity. com we’ll be having, monthly meetups around my ignite your power course. I’ll be having live calls probably less. Than I did last year because I also want to do some in person stuff, but I also want to get the engagement going on in the Mighty Networks platform itself, because I think, I actually really like the interface I feel like it has some similarities in terms of the way it’s laid out to Facebook, but without the ads and without the, like, People outside, you know, it’s much more calm and peaceful, but I like that you can, you know, make posts.

You can comment directly on those different threads. There’s different sections. So I don’t know the way I like it a lot better than some Say discord, which to me is just chaos. It’s just like one thing after another, after another, after another, it’s just like,

Sheldon: yeah. And

Aurora: same with like extensive group chats because group chats, I just get lost in the thread, right?

It’s just like one long thread. And so what I like about that platform is it, you can bake a post and then people can comment on that post. And then another, you know, so it’s, it keeps things. organized in a way that works for my brain and a way that things like discord don’t because it’s just to me just too, too much of a barrage of information at once.

Engaging on Mighty Networks

Aurora: So I want to encourage folks to come join the conversation there. And I recently posted my own recent blog about the social media stuff and, and how I’m navigating all the changes that make people want to leave. Because obviously as content creators, We don’t really have the luxury of leaving, but also I feel like, you know, it’s kind of my place to stick around and keep the platforms, you know, at least our little corner of it, more positive, so.

Sheldon: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .

Aurora: Yeah.

Sheldon: Yeah. Sorry, I don’t know if there’s a, let me just say this before in, in case there’s not an opportunity to say this as well.

Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Sheldon: If you won. Certainly. Listen, as I mentioned, community is so important. It can be so powerful. I think this community is definitely one where the people who are in it, if we were engaging with each other more, it would amplify the goodness that’s already there.

As well I wanted to just say as well, if you are someone who. If you want a voice like me at your organization, speaking about giftedness or neurodivergence in general, or, you know, any of the things that I’ve spoken to already you can go to my website, which is sheldongayisbuggin.

com. And then also check out some cool merch

If you can see it or not, but, I’ve got some really cool neuroaffirming and you know, anti racist and, and all that good fun stuff merch there, so please feel free to, to check it out,

Aurora: and that kind of circles back to my final question, which is how can they find out more about you?

Oh,

Sheldon: good. I wasn’t, I wasn’t 100 percent sure, but yeah, so they can find me right there. And actually one thing I forgot is there as well I know some people, you know, Don’t have a podcast like app that they listen to but you can actually listen to the podcast directly you can find out about my speaking you can find out about the merch you can find out about the podcast and I generally post as well like this interview at some point will appear there Right. And so you can also check out any interviews that I’ve done as well.

So

Aurora: awesome. Well, thank you so much for finally, we got this interview.

Sheldon: We’ve

Aurora: been talking about it,

Sheldon: but yeah, I’m glad we’ve got, we’ve had the chance to do it.

Aurora: Yeah. So glad to have you and look forward to sharing.

Sheldon: Yes.

Join the Embracing Intensity Community

Aurora: Looking for ways to embrace your own intensity. Join our embracing intensity community@embracingintensity.com where you’ll meet a growing group of like-minded people who get what it’s like to be gifted and intense and are committed to creating a supportive community as well as access to our courses and tools to help you use your fire without getting burned.

There’s also a pay what you can option through our Patreon where you can increase your pledge to help sustain the podcast or. Or join us at a rate that better fits your needs. You can also sign up for my free Harnessing the Power of Your Intensity, a self regulation workbook for gifted, creative, and twice exceptional adults and teens.

All links can be found in the show notes or on EmbracingIntensity. com.

Resources:

Join our Community & Check out our calendar of upcoming events

  • Sheldon’s Website: Sheldon Gay is Buggin
  • Listen to the I Must Be Buggin’ podcast
  • Learn more about Sheldon’s speaking engagements
  • Explore his neuroaffirming and anti-racist merchandise

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