* Rough Transcript *

Ep. 276

Introduction to Leadership and Mentorship

Marc: honestly, to me when you’re a leader, you’re a mentor first. And a lot of my skills come from the fact that I always want to be somebody that I would have needed, kind of like you just quoted there.

Welcome to Embracing Intensity Podcast

Aurora: Welcome to the Embracing Intensity podcast. I’ll be sharing interviews and tips for gifted, creative, twice exceptional, and outside the box thinkers who use their fire in a positive way. My name is Aurora Remember Holtzman. After years of feeling too much, I finally realized that intensity is the source of my greatest power.

Now, instead of beating myself up about not measuring up to my own self imposed standards, I’m on a mission to help people embrace their own intensity and befriend their brains so they can share their gifts with the world through the Embracing Intensity community, coaching, educational assessment, and other tools to help you use your fire without getting burned.

You can join us at embracingintensity. com.

Aurora: Hello.

Aurora: Today I get to share our talk on neurodivergent leadership with Marc Almodovar. You can find the full rich discussion recording in our guest call library at embracingintensity.com.

Upcoming Events and Coaching

Aurora: Join us this Saturday for our next call on navigating healthy relationships with Heather Borman Morris. Who’s a therapist, an expert on surviving narcissistic abuse and other toxic relationship dynamics.

As I’m moving into the fall, I’ve decided to open up a few spots for one-on-one coaching. If you’ve been interested in exploring that option, feel free to email me at Aurora. remember@gmail.com and we can set up a quick time to chat. In the meantime, I’ve got some exciting content planned for the fall and winter. Enjoy.

Introduction to Marc Almodovar

Aurora: Welcome everybody. So glad to see you guys and thrilled to have Marc here to talk about neurodivergent leadership. I’m going to go ahead and let folks introduce yourselves, and then I’ll open the floor to Marc.

Aurora: Awesome. Well, I am glad you guys all made it. And I’m Aurora and most of you know that. Super glad to have this. I know Marc and I, we were trying for this last year and there’s a family emergency and we actually, as it turned out, we had a great call with Dr. Kimberly Douglas, so it all worked out, I’m really thrilled to have you. So welcome Marc.

Marc: Thank you. I’m very excited to be here and chat with you all.

Marc’s ADHD Journey

Marc: And I guess I’ll get a little bit into my background and what brings me to talk about neurodivergent leadership. So, I am unquestionably somebody with ADHD by the book.

Growing up in school, my report cards consisted of things like Marc is there, but not really there kind of like living in distraction. The hyperactivity wasn’t very visible, but it was definitely going on inside of my brain. And I’ve always known that I was a little bit different. And when I turned 16 years old, that’s when I actually got a diagnosis of having ADHD.

And it was the first time I really had a name for my thing, quote unquote. And it was life changing for me. Because I finally knew how my brain works and knew that there was ways to grow and get better at some of the things I was struggling in my life. To make a really long story short, I’m very much so somebody with an all or nothing brain.

And as I got into my personal development in my early twenties, I thought to myself, not only do I want to grow and. Be the best version of myself. I also want to help others do the same and I got a certification in ADHD life coaching.

Founding the Men’s ADHD Support Group

Marc: As I got into this ADHD community, I got really inspired to dig into the men’s mental health space within this field, and I created something that is essentially bigger than me.

It’s the thing that I’m most proud of, and it’s the Men’s ADHD Support Group. We’re a 501c3 non profit. We reach over 17, 000 members. Everything that I do is, I’m a big believer that people with ADHD or people that are just neurodivergent in general, I’m fond of the idea that we are not here to learn how to be normal.

Yes, that’s not what I come in to call us and teach people how to do. That’s not what the men’s ADHD support group teaches. We do need to learn some things to get behind society because. Aspects of society are not neurodivergent friendly but I’m a big fan of, we need to learn how to use our strengths to our advantage and that’s the work that I’m here to do.

By the way, whenever people quote some of the comments that I say, I’m like, wow, I said that I’m really glad that I said that. That’s cool. I’m pretty forgetful.

Leadership Philosophy

Marc: But a lot of that involves leadership and yeah, leadership is something that I think a lot of people who are neurodivergent are very good at.

And a lot of us don’t know that we’re good at it. And by the way, this is not like every single neurodivergent person. We all have different strengths and weaknesses, but I do find it very common that we have a lot of leadership strengths. For me, it goes back to my, my leadership is, is very much so based off the fact that I.

I don’t have anybody that I’m the boss of. I look at it as I am here to, if I’m in a leadership position, I work for the people that work for me, quote unquote, and whatever my organization’s purpose is, in my case, it’s to empower men with ADHD. So I’ve actually, I’ve managed to excel in the many different leadership roles that I’ve done.

A lot of it comes from the fact that I prioritize. Mentorship as a leader, and I always think about who is it that I would have needed a moment where I was struggling.

Challenges in Neurodivergent Leadership

Marc: I probably like many of you struggled in school environments. I’ve struggled learning, reading boring textbooks and everything like that never really did it for me.

And that has influenced my ability to mentor others, and have empathy for others, tremendously. It has influenced my development. abilities quite a bit. And

honestly, to me when you’re a leader, you’re a mentor first. And a lot of my skills come from the fact that I always want to be somebody that I would have needed, kind of like you just quoted there.

So, yeah, I’m kind of going a little bit all over the place that I, that I, that I touched on what was needed to be touched on there.

Aurora: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Q&A Session Begins

Aurora: I would love it if you guys had some questions that you could put in the chat for a Q& A, I guess, I’m curious to know, well, first of all, I wanted to say that part of what draws me to Marc’s work is just you have a very welcoming aura, like your videos and your energy. It just is very welcoming and accepting. And I think that that’s one of the things that I see is your strength of the leader is, is that it just, it reads on the screen, even in small doses, you can just feel your warmth and your welcoming energy. So, I wanted to share that.

And I’m curious, I know because your group is focused on men’s mental health and ADHD.

Barriers in Men’s Mental Health Focus

Aurora: Wondering if there were any barriers to focusing specifically on that topic, if you got a lot of pushback or if people, cause I know for me, I feel like it’s needed and it’s very welcome, but I know there are other people that can kind of give pushback on like, Oh, it’s a men’s only group.

I’m curious.

Marc: And I mean, the imposter syndrome in me, it makes me wonder, if there’s ever been anything that I could have done better in my messaging and whatnot. But there, has been a misconception. With what we seek to do in our organization. Thankfully, for the most part, it’s accepted , but we know how it is with ADHD or being neurodivergent.

We often battle with self confidence, and it’s that one negative comment that we’ll get, that will just linger in our minds, despite 1, 000 positive ones, right? So this is the one comment for me, and it’s that within the ADHD space that women are the ones that are very underdiagnosed women are diagnosed later in life when they are diagnosed, and the boys and men are the ones that are highly diagnosed, and the misconception is kind of like that I’m saying that I feel that we have it worse, quote unquote, and that’s not what I’m saying at all.

The idea that we encourage. Is that support groups and safe spaces are not just a necessity for men, but a necessity for everyone. We are here to provide that for those who identify as men however, that is not to push any idea that we have it worse. That is not to exclude anyone and as far as our specific work and our subjects and whatnot, we do most of our meetings are done in a private way because men often bottle up their emotions.

And need a safe space to kind of just let some of the stuff that we’ve been struggling without but we also do a variety of things to the public for wives of husbands with ADHD for husbands of husbands with ADHD. So, there’s quite a bit that we do there, but the idea that we push is that support groups are great for every single one of us.

Handling Criticism and Self-Confidence

Marc: Now that what this has been a huge growing point for me we, we also have to know when we get comments like that, that a lot of that stuff doesn’t define us. Like in the moment where I’m receiving that type of comment, I can say that I’ve grown to the point with my confidence, where I can get a comment like that and just know that that’s not true about me.

And I’ve gotten way better at that largely due to the coaching that I’ve received through therapy and whatnot. But when I look at a comment like that, the 1st thought that comes to mind is do the majority of people feel this way? How do I get this comment that scale?

If not, then it’s something that’s probably not worth looking into. And my role as the president and founder of that huge group, it’s like, I’ve learned that I’ve had to build some type of. Self affirmations when I get those challenges that I come across and, we do get different types of criticism that are like the one, 2 percent of the audience, but it’s there.

Aurora: Yeah. Yeah, I do. And it’s so hard when it’s an online space because there’s those people that are not even worth addressing. You can kind of tell early on, I always find. Like, sometimes I’ll make 1 attempt to clarify if I think it’s a misunderstanding, but after that, you can pretty much tell if they’re really engaging in good faith or not.

Marc: Right.

Aurora: Looks like we got some good questions in the Q& A in the chat here, so I’m going to read the first one.

Emerging Leadership in Large Communities

Aurora: With a community of 1, 700 members, what does leadership look like when you see it emerging in a new leader?

Marc: What does leadership look like when you see it emerging in a new leader? For me,

I love the passion and excitement. I think if an interest is there, people can develop and grow really far. But I will not be doing a leadership talk on how to be an effective leader in a campaign. I think that I would be miserable in a field like that.

And I would perform pretty badly, largely due to the fact that it’s nowhere near an interest of mine, and it’s not something that I wake up looking forward to, versus doing work like, Being who I needed when I was 16 years old and didn’t think the world of myself. That’s something that I wakes up and excites me.

You know what I mean? And when I look at my organization and we have five board members that direct and lead the organization, multiple volunteers. But the thing that everyone has in common and that you see in places like the International ADHD Conference and everything like that is they’re all naturally passionate about it.

Right. I didn’t have to convince anybody to join or become a leader in my organization. They’ve come to this mission. Brandon Mahan being one of them, right? He’s on the board for the Men’s ADHD Support Group. And he has a wonderful ADHD Essentials podcast that every person with ADHD should listen to, in my opinion.

You know, him, it was like an absolute yes on me. Help direct this group in a way that can influence the dads with ADHD a little bit better. So that passion is a huge thing for me. I don’t know if that can be taught into somebody or if it’s more natural, but it’s something that I look for in an emerging leader.

Aurora: Yeah,

 I think that’s definitely something that you can’t that you can’t fake the enthusiasm. That’s definitely like a core. I think you can teach skills, but you can’t force enthusiasm.

Authenticity and Accountability

Aurora: So, let’s see what challenges might neurodivergent leader face when trying to remain authentic and accountable?

Marc: Yeah, there’s a few different routes that we can go with this. And a lot of it centers around the self talk that we have. Most of us, at least for me have been met with for me in my life, it’s when Marc has a lot of potential, but he doesn’t apply himself.

I’ve been, like, called lazy, and disorganized mess, and everything like that. That often leads to struggles with self dialogue that I can have today. But I think on the accountable side of things there can be a very self defeating mindset that we have when we’re met with accountability on our own ends.

Like anytime, if I get notified of something that I did incorrectly, or something that I can be doing a little bit better on I’ve been notorious to internalize a lot of that and take it really, really personally I think there’s a few things that we can do with that. But as far as how we hold ourselves accountable. One, we have to look at whether the feedback that we are being given is. feedback that is, is worth it. Like, in my case, it’s like, does this person have the same interests as me? Has this person accomplished something that I look to accomplish as well?

In that case, then I want to seek the feedback from that person. If it’s some random troll or hater, then the block button is my friend, you know? But that is, huge for me. And then as far as remaining authentic goes, I think that For me, where that’s shown up as a struggle is when I’m on the flip side, and I’m giving somebody feedback that they may not want to hear.

That’s where the imposter syndrome really kicks in. That’s when it’s like, who do you think you are to be telling them about this? And they’re gonna think you’re the worst person ever and all that type of stuff. And I think there’s ways to go. About it that can alleviate a lot of that stuff like Gary Vee has a concept of kind candor that I found really helpful, but I’m a big fan of when I’m remaining authentic and communicating to somebody something that I feel can be done better.

I would like to develop them on there’s a way to deliver that feedback in an authentic way without being a total a hole. I don’t know if I’m allowed to curse here but it’s like compliment sandwiches go a long way. Like in my field and in the corporate world and everything like that, it’s, I’ve noticed that you’ve been really great with customer service and whatnot, but I’ve noticed that time management is an issue.

Like what are some things that we can do to work on these types of things? I hope I’m making sense here. But I think that in moments when we need to be authentic and deliver feedback that somebody may not want to hear, but it’s for the development of the person. I think that it’s important that you work with them as a team about it.

Never as in like you’re beating them up about it. And then two delivering the feedback that is with full awareness of the person’s strengths, the strength based way of going about it. That’s how I feel.

Aurora: That’s so funny. You said, right before you said the team thing, that word came to my head.

So we were totally on the same wavelength.

Marc: Yeah. Like it’s never you against the problem or putting the person against the problem. It’s you and the person against the problem together.

Aurora: Totally. That’s

Marc: the key point.

Aurora: Absolutely.

Communicating Complex Ideas

Aurora: Let’s see, how do we communicate with folks who aren’t seeing all the connections we can see readily?

Marc: That’s a frustrating thing. Is that a scenario where you’re maybe I’ll just throw an example out there, but maybe you’re excited about an idea and you’re not met with that same level of excitement or energy about it? Is that what I’m hearing?

Aurora: I think that could definitely be an example.

Marc: Yeah.

Aurora: Or people just not, like, you, you see how everything’s connected and, and they’re not seeing the connections.

Marc: Huh.

Aurora: I mean, I can think of an example for me when I was, like, probably, like, 20 years ago, I saw the connection between my ADHD and My chronic pain issues is all being kind of part of that greater nervous system stuff.

And like there was nothing connecting that in the research. So people might not see that so readily, but you know, if you make connections that other people might not see.

I see in the chat here, says sometimes the mind jumps so fast. It feels like intuition. You don’t have the words to explain why something is wrong. Yeah.

Marc: Yeah, so, I mean, I’m going to be honest with you. I find that really frustrating and I hate when that happens.

I don’t know if I have a solid answer for y’all because I mean, the hyper fixation with a lot of us. And it’s just so like all the way in, this is like the only thing that exists and it’s like, what do you mean? You’re not seeing this connection. This is so obviously going to benefit everyone just get on board.

Right? But I would say that

if this is something that is happening at scale, I would say that it’s beneficial to consider the environment that you’re working in. And if it is the right space for you, I don’t know. Like, in my case, usually this doesn’t happen super often. It does happen, but not always. But I have a team of men with ADHD that also want to benefit other men with ADHD.

So that’s a benefit of mine. So that’s 1 thing, but I would say that when we are feeling triggered, which a woman like that can trigger us, I think that it’s something worth, Revisiting, but probably not worth addressing in that moment where we’re feeling angry and frustrated, like going for a walk might be really helpful and something like that.

And then when we are at the revisit, I’m a big fan of middle grounds, if there is any I hope that makes sense.

Aurora: Absolutely. And here it says even if that’s not an answer, hearing it, that it’s frustrating to you is validating.

Marc: Extremely frustrating. Yeah. It’s one of the aspects of ADHD that really stands out for me.

And I am Yeah, when I have an idea, I’m very, it’s very clear that it’s an idea I’m passionate about.

Aurora: Yeah, absolutely.

Support for ADHD Partnerships

Aurora: What kind of support do you offer for partnerships where at least one person has ADHD?

Marc: I don’t have, nothing in, in related to the, the neurodivergent leadership stuff, but as far as what I have, the men’s ADHD support group has the same space for that one partner. If it is someone who identifies as a man with ADHD to the public, we do have lots of content on our website.

Men’s ADHD support group. org. That are helpful for the partner that does not have ADHD and looking for ways to support. But yeah, we offer these places for the men with ADHD.

Aurora: Awesome. It’s a normalized frustration. It’s human. Yeah, absolutely. So I see one more question in the chat and then I’m happy to open for more open discussion.

So, you mentioned earlier about neurodivergent leadership programs. Qualities. Could you share more about the natural leadership qualities you see in neurodivergent individuals? That’s a great question.

Marc: Yeah. So for me, the creativity unquestionably stands out. Like I and somebody who does extremely well in moments where the pressure is a little bit higher and my problem solving skills are very much so benefited by my creativity.

And when different situations arise. So that’s been a really huge thing for me. But also the highly sensitive aspect for myself. I’m also under the, I guess the, the HSP category. The highly sensitive aspect of myself makes me very approachable. And I learned to love that about myself.

People feel comfortable coming to me with their problems. People feel comfortable. Speaking to me if they feel that I’ve done something wrong, or if there’s something wrong within our workplace that could be a little bit better. And I love that about myself and I do credit a lot of my neurodivergence to that.

My high levels of empathy. Make me there for my, my people. And that is something when you work in an environment as an employee or a team member, and you have a leader that is like that, that you feel that you can trust and you know, wants what’s best for you. That is a space where you are very, very inspired to work and do your best.

And when you have employees that are inspired to do their best, Then you have a well run organization. I have the fact that I’m highly sensitive to credit for that.

Aurora: Absolutely. I definitely see that. One more question here.

Depathologizing ADHD

Aurora: I’m in a lot of circles about depathologizing neurodivergence.

ADHD, the acronym had the words deficit and disorder in it. Marc, I’d love to hear your musings about taking apart the label or owning it. I guess the question is, would you be willing to muse about depathologizing ADHD?

Marc: Yeah, I’m going to be really honest with you. When you say depathologizing, what do you mean?

Aurora: Oh, like, oh, make, pathologizing being making it, you know, the disorder part, the focusing on the disability disorder part where depathologizing would be focusing on the, like, it’s just a different way of wiring rather than a disability.

Marc: Yeah, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, I can see both sides of this discussion.

Like there are people that are very much on one side saying that A DHD is a gift. And then there are people very passionate about it being a dis a disorder. My, my theory of of A DHD is I feel that there are, there are strengths. To having this type of brain, but there’s also definitely downsides to it.

And we can lessen some of the downsides by doing things like getting a good amount of sleep, taking the proper ADHD medication if needed. Support groups are huge. I might be a little bit biased on that one. So there’s ways to get by it. And, there’s strengths that can be of great benefit.

Like a lot of people with ADHD are creative. A lot of people with ADHD are entrepreneurial. You know, so when we learn to use these things to our advantage, we can have a career that works out well for us and excel and whatnot. But I don’t look at it as, I personally am not a fan of disorder.

But I’m not a fan of calling it a gift either. I’m just a fan of this being the way that I am and not trying to change me, but to use my strengths a little bit more to my advantage as opposed to trying to be something that I’m not.

Aurora: Absolutely. And I tend to think that people who say that ADHD is a gift are probably additionally gifted as well.

And they confuse the two personally. Although I do kind of like the superpower analogy only because, and I actually wrote A blog post on the nuances of it because people are like, ah, ADHD is not a superpower. But the reason I like that analogy better is because superpowers can also be a curse and you have to learn how to use them.

And if not managed properly, they can cause a lot of damage. And so to me, I still am careful with how I use that term publicly, because I think people will jump on that the same way with the gift part. But I do like it a little bit better as an analogy, because you have to learn how to properly channel it.

Marc: Kind of like Cyclops from the X Men.

Like, if he doesn’t have those things that help him manage his power, he’d just be blasting the red.

Aurora: Yeah, absolutely.

 And on that note I’m gonna go ahead and open for discussion.

Aurora: Well, we got about three more minutes. So, I’ll go ahead and wrap things up.

But Marc, it was fabulous to have you come. I’m glad we made this happen. And I can’t wait to share.

Marc: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. And it was really good connecting with every single one of you. I hope everybody got something from this today.

Aurora: Yeah, absolutely.

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